This is a translation of Czech version of interview Alena Theodora Dvořáková made with Vít Hrachový and published here:

https://magazin.signaly.cz/2208/vit-hrachovy-kdo-vyhraje-souboj-mezi-sportovnim-a-historickym-sermirem

Who would win the duel between the sport and historical fencer?

Alena Theodora Dvořáková: Some time ago, we published a text by our colleague Klara about sport fencing in Magazin. We thought it would be good to explain the difference between sport and historical fencing. Vít Hrachový from Au Jugé fencing group has been fencing for a quarter of a century, he teaches children and adults and he enjoys it very much. So very much, that the originally planned conversation about historical fencing turned into something like a celebratory poem on this kind of movement. The good news is that if he infects us with his enthusiasm, you can start with a broom handle - and we all have one at home, don't we?

Alena:So let's try to be clear: What kinds of fencing are there and how do they differ? When a friend tells us “I've started fencing,” what should we ask him to find out what he's doing?

Vit: Fencing is an art and a science, the science of handling weapons. There are many purposes for which weapons can be used. In the sport of fencing, it is important to win, and to win according to the rules. Theatrical and cinematic fencing has an artistic intention to work with the tension in the audience or to tell a part of a story or character through visuals and choreography. Weapon fencing is also part of the Georgian folk dance parikaoba. The word “historical” can refer to tools. For example, competitions with replicas of historical weapons (HEMA tournaments), or even armour (BOTN tournaments). The word historical can also refer to the study of historical manuscripts and books of old fencing masters, and the attempt to revive ancient schools of fencing as they were once taught with weapons from that era. In Medieval and Renaissance times there were schools of self-defense fencing, where the goal was to hit the opponent and avoid being hit yourself, to survive. There were also schools of sport fencing, where the goal was to win by the rules or put on a show for the spectators. Today, people fence for the joy of movement as well, they are looking for exercise that is fun and trains their brain, determination, reflexes, in addition to the body, and it is also social exercise. Some people practice fencing to use the knowledge in reenactments of historical battles. So a follow-up question for our friend might be - what do you plan to use fencing for?

That's more complicated than I thought. How did you get into fencing and what do you do from the above?

I read Ivanhoe by Walter Scott as a kid. It was a wonderful introduction to the medieval world. Of course the movies, Excalibur (1981), Conan the Barbarian, Red Sonja and many others. Also the 36 Chambers of Shaolin, movies by Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan. I never thought I'd do it because the doctors predicted I'd end up in a wheelchair by the time I would have turned 25.

While in college, internet friends invited me to LARPs and wooden stick battles in the woods - Lord of the Rings, Battle of the Five Armies, and more. Running through the woods with a carpet-covered stick and hitting people was cool. Due to safety reasons it was forbidden to hit oponnent's head. The trouble was that it was a primal reaction, even though I knew I wasn't allowed to do it, I still automatically hit oponnent's head first. And I wasn't alone, it was quite a common practice. It annoyed me, I tried to unlearn it and I constantly failed.

I decided to look for someone who should know more and started learning the historical fencing with steel sword replicas at Liberec in group called Schiavi. They also took me to battle events, Libušín, Kolín and unforgettable autumn events at Malá Skála in Český Ráj. That was a good start. But the Schiavi were located in Liberec, I was several hundred kilometers away in Olomouc and Frýdlant nad Ostravicí in Moravia and I always had trouble to find a partner for joint training.

You said you weren't in good health. The doctors didn't ban you from fencing, didn't consider it risky?

I was allowed to swim and ride the bike. I decided not to ask doctors, and since they've limited my years, I'll enjoy it my own way. Sword is a steel weight, so fencing can be considered assymetrical weight-lifting. So I added the study of Wing Chun Kung Fu to learn to compensate and ballance my exercises. This has helped me a lot to put my back and body together as one unit. This allowed me to add the biomechanical component to my study of fencing, which isn't much emphasised in old manuscripts and only seen in pictures by people who know what to look for. In the end, the exercise helped me fix a lot of things in my body.

And how did it go on? Today, fencing related activities make up most of your free time, right?

Then again, it was a series of coincidences. A friend Patrik Lach contacted me over the internet asking for help with the translation of Renaissance fencing manual by Giacomo di Grassi. A few years later our paths briefly crossed with Tai Chi teacher Peter Svarc, who introduced me to Salvatore Fabris' book on rapier, which I translated too. So, through studying Chinese kung fu, Italian masters, and due to lack of training partners, I came to the point where I started “teaching” to actively find people to exercise with, experimenting with teaching systems from old books and forming insight on how to use any cold weapon. Fencing (and kung fu) is both entertainment and art where things make sense, everything is connected in some way, and it's very satisfying to explore.

The big push for me was when I started teaching kids at the Stanice techniků at the DDM in Prague 6. Kids ask for action and fun and it was only with them that I really started to learn how to teach. I really enjoy it and I can apply lessons learned back into teaching adults. One of the things the kids taught me was to lower down the bar of complexity as much as possible for beginners, so that they can join in the other more advanced kids in minutes and be of immediate use. Probably the most valuable insights over existing dogmas were two. Right from the start, one must learn to touch the partner with weapon safely and quickly. Without this, people tend to argue whether there was a hit or not, which is unnecessary. Second, teaching footwork at the very beginning is not productive, as it takes 6 months or even 5 years before you learn it properly. It often leads to situation, that people actually forget to move during this period. So you can skip that and get through the first year of teaching with natural gait. Adding new step techniques over time expands the tactical repertoire. During the the first year I teach the basic ways how to handle weapons - sword, combination of sword and shield, sword and dagger, two swords, spear, spear and shield, two-handed sword, halberd and rapier, and as part of that, working together in a group, fighting against outnumbered or uneven oponnents.

So, apart of sport fencing and theatrical fencing, I do all of the above - studying, translating, testing on people and myself, teaching, making mistakes and trying to learn from them and move on. In addition to duelling, I try to apply the knowledge from ancient and medieval manuals on fighting in battle formations, as part of the project Hradec Court of Queen Eliška Rejčka. This gives the art of swordsmanship another level of entertainment.

People with wooden or iron swords can sometimes be seen on the bus or in the street. Some people think they're crazy, others would like to try it. What should a person who is fifteen and would like to try to go to an event like this do?

It's just as crazy as going out to play in the sandbox and on the swings and carousels. Football, airsoft or battles, it's all about fun and games, active leisure, mostly in nature, in the woods. When I started larping in the late 90's, all you had to do was get a sheet with a hole to pull over your head through, belt yourself, cut a leaf off a hockey stick and wrap the stick with carpet tape, take a camping mat, a sleeping bag, a tent and a water bottle and something to eat like you would when camping in the woods. Since then, larps and battles have moved on, and the choice is open to people who want to experience a thrilling story in impeccably crafted sets and costumes, as well as those who want to invest bare minimum and just go fooling around in the woods. To get started I recommend reading the tutorials and articles on larp.cz, especially the article “Before, during and after the first larp”. Also, in Czech Republic, written confirmation from parents is required for adepts below eighteen years.

And when the person is twenty-five or thirty? Isn't that too late to start this hobby? Can an adult go to a larp event for the first time?

All that's really needed is the desire to play. It's not a problem to start at 50. When I was in my twenties, I enjoyed running around the woods a lot, then I started making game characters (apothecary, alchemist, mage, general, nobleman, scholar,…). There are also dragon roles, hellhound roles, group leader roles, you can help with the story and setting quests for groups. There are also roles for asocial hermits, forest fairies, evil savages, amazons, whatever, the imagination is rich and the only limitation is usually setting the story of the larp or battle in a historical or fantasy setting.

What specific events would you recommend to complete newbies? Where can they get equipment? Is it available for rent? Someone may not be sure if these events are right for them.

As far as larp battles go, I've been out of the loop for 20 years, so the online forums mentioned on larp.cz would probably be a good start. There's plenty of articles on how to get started and an overview calendar of events. As for iron battles, that's where you'll want to find a fencing group somewhere nearby and start going to practice with them regularly. After all, steel weapons are more dangerous and you can't go into battle without experience and training, the risk of causing injury is great. People from the group will also advise newcomers on choosing the right weapon, costume and equipment to participate in events. Equipment and experience requirements vary according to the historical period and type of event chosen. There are also discussion forums on Facebook about Czech fencing. If you try to start on your own, it is easier to make mistakes, to get wrong equipment. These mistakes can be expensive and hard to fix and most importantly, it can completely ruin one's desire to play. Also, in a group, a lot of gear can be temporarily provided, so a newbie doesn't have to invest so much in their first events, where they'll only find out if they're enjoying it or not.

And what should do a person, who wants to get serious and start fencing with a teacher? Where can he find one? I suppose this option is available only in the bigger cities?

There's always some way to do it. I'd start by choosing a weapon or weapons, then one can start finding out who teaches them in the first place. Before COVID, there used to be a fencing festival in Prague called Replicon.cz, where various teachers from all over the country offered their lessons during whole weekend. I miss it a lot now; it was an opportunity to meet not only fencers but also teachers. Regular attendance at lessons is really only possible in larger cities like Prague, Ostrava, Brno, Olomouc, Liberec, České Budějovice, Ústí nad Labem, Plzeň, Pardubice, etc., in short, in the place where the teacher lives. Another option is to go to a weekend seminar or to arrange private lessons, to commute regularly or irregularly to the teacher and to find one or more partners at home and practice with them. It is also possible to ask a teacher to give a lecture at his students' place, either one day or weekend lessons. The door is open.

Sport fencing can probably be done like any other sport, just give it some time and that's it. Is it possible with historical fencing? Or are all those who practice it recognizable on the bus by their long hair and historicizing attire? Is it possible to be a “historical fencer” for two or four hours a week?

Sports can be done for fun on a recreational level. Competitions are more demanding and of course there are top level teams where a couple of hours a week is not enough and you need to train daily or even twice a day for four to six days a week. Fencing appeals to a wide spectrum of people, engineers, lawyers, doctors, workers, teachers, notaries, sea captains, police officers, programmers, scientists - throughout whole society. Two hours a week is fine for recreation, to learn something and keep fit. If you want to get to a higher level quickly, to join competitions or to improve your fencing faster, you have to practice more. When you're no longer a beginner, you can decide to slow down and only maintain your skills. Or you can add learning new weapons, new schools, and study further in depth, gaining experience with as many partners as possible.

You talked about health improvements from body exercice as a bonus in pursuing this hobby. What else can it bring to a person, how does it enrich them?

Fencing helps to develop many qualities. Fencing lessons strengthen the body, improve flexibility, help build balance, speed, agility and perception. Exercises and guided sparring contribute to managing stress and crisis situations, finding inner peace and calm. Fencing can be a source of endorphin-induced joy of movement and relaxation for people performing sedentary jobs.

Fencing is both an art and a science. It has an aesthetic, artistic component; one can join a wide family of artists. One can also seek and name unifying principles of movement, study fencing as a science. Fencing is the result of many hundreds of years of scientific research and application of mathematics, physics and biomechanics. We can study the theory so that we, as critics, can distinguish the good from the bad and can name the mistakes. But merely studying theory without practice is fruitless. If we successfully apply theory to practice, it becomes an art - the ability, the art of achieving a set goal.

Theory is built like the alphabet. Individual techniques and exercises have the role of letters, which must first be carefully drawn many times, then composed into words and sentences that control all parts of the weapon, body and mind in harmony.

Mastering the technical side of fencing is sound physical training, gaining knowledge of biomechanics, performing calligraphy with weapon tip, dancing, rhythm, perception of time and space. In addition to mastering the technical parts, you can practice tactical-strategic thinking. Fencing becomes a game of chess and a dialogue between fencers.

At the master's level, fencing is a movement poem, a ballet, an expression of the self and it offers a meaningful way how to spend some part of your life. Fencing is a game that can entertain you for a lifetime.

My husband nudged me to ask the most stupid question, i.e. whether the sport fencer or the historical fencer would win their duel in a fight between a sport fencer and a historical fencer. Is there a good answer to that?

It's a favorite question of all martial arts students. It's not stupid at all. It stands for another question or doubt - “Does it make sense, what I'm doing?” Modern sport fencing is a direct continuation of the ancient schools of “historical” fencing. Many schools were synthesized and adapted to the sport weapons and the rules of the sport itself have evolved.

There are many definitions of the very concept of victory. The rules of valid engagement in sport fencing also vary depending on the type of weapon used. There was once a famous duel between the world champions in sabre and in Japanese kendo. The sabre fencer gave the first hit to the leg or torso and a split second later the kendo master gave him a full blow to the head. According to the rules of the sport, whoever hit first won. However, a real full katana hit to the head cuts a man in half while the leg can be stitched up and healed. Specialization in winning by the rules can be limiting for many fencers, even if they're at an excellent level.

Fencing as a system of self-defense, what I try to practice, is fulfilled when I can hit my opponent and not take any hits from him before, after, or during my hit. The fight is then resolved by a deep hit to the armed hand or head of the opponent.

But the definitive answer is not which style or school is better.

Usually, the winner is the one, who is better and more experienced fencer who knows how to better use the available weapons in a given situation.